DoseNation Podcast

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DoseNation 34: Evangelical Psychedelic Chemists

Hosts Jake Kettle and James Kent discuss what's been happening for the past few weeks, Jake talks about why he does not do psychedelics anymore, and James discusses the Psychedelic Chemists.

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Posted By Jake at 2013-10-15 09:00:21 permalink | comments
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Jake : 2013-11-16 17:57:18
Both interesting points Eugene and Davey. As I've said on the podcast, some things can only be...experienced. Anyhow ,hope you all have a good evening.
davey. : 2013-11-14 16:03:02
Getting back to Eugene: I took you up on suggestion and read "proof of heaven" just read the nde chapters actually. Firstly, it was fun to read and really made me feel good. So thanks! I don't think there was anything like "proof" in it though, but that's OK. I did a bit of background Googling and discovered a bit of controversy with some folks claiming his coma was not really so deep. I'm not too interested in that bone of. contention. thing I have to report is a really good feeling of openness and connection to what since I was a little little boy I've felt to be guardian angels or something helping me along. Again, I have no proof, but the feeling is so profound and alive, its not something I'd want to turn away from. (Although
I usually do forget about it) if you really like that kind of
thing, I'd suggest Robert Monroe's far journeys and ultimate journey. I loved those books when they came out. Also Olaf stapletons starmaker for a fictional sci fi version of a big gosmology.
StrangerDanger. : 2013-11-01 06:41:36

I think discussing psychedelic chemists, would be even better if discussing with a psychedelic chemist :)

Casey Hardison got out this summer after serving 9 years for LSD (and DMT, 2C-B, etc) manufacture. Great podcast guest he would make, methinks.


Eugene. : 2013-10-22 12:34:18
Hi Davey, this book is worth checking out because it was written by a man who was fully immersed in (and applying ) the scientific materialism of western medicine. His extensive experiences in the "spirit world" while his cerebral cortex was shut down as externally observed by his colleagues parallels the accounts of most world spiritual traditions. What his experience corroborates to, I believe, is evidence supporting the structure of consciousness itself: a structure that has been extensively mapped by the world mystical traditions and more recently within the field of transpersonal psychology. The word "spirit realm" is just a word that refers to something in the subjective, inner realm of human experience. It's as good a word as any, completely outside the realm of objective, sensory-dependent empirical science. It's irrelevant for the person having that experience to hear the materialist dismiss the experience as a mere by product of shifting neourochemestry; subjectively it is as real an experience as riding the city bus. Besides, the bus ride and the adventures in the "spirit realm" can both be measured by looking at brain activity . Why is one more "real" than he other? Both experiences can be consensually validated.
davey. : 2013-10-21 22:26:56
Hi. This comment is in response to Eugene's reference to "proof of heaven" I just want to ask: does this book contain evidence that was externally corroborated. This is the only evidence that could provide proof of the coexistence, commingling of these two worlds. Because I never found that kind of evidence, I stopped looking several years ago. Life has proceeded quite nicely in the absence of that quest. But if you say he has this kind of evidence, I'd want to che k it out. You know, this is the same kind of test we can put to the content of dosed communications. Basically I am convinced by the evidence for weak but verifiable psi effects. A few personal experiences have offered evidence for this too. This doesn't however make the case for a spirit world or of a personal persistence after death yada yada yada. We

sometimes search for a miracle only to miss the most obvoious one, and the only one we need... the fact of being. A miracle is a phenomenon that would seem to defy the laws of reality.

Mandy. : 2013-10-18 09:21:12
I really enjoy this podcast. I like the stuff about mysticism and neuroscience. Psychedelics are always an interesting topic of discussion and the conspiracy theories are fun as long as you can argue both sides. I really liked James' take on the "gun" theory and how the gun manufacturers instead of the government, are the one's who really gain anything from shootings.
Keep on truckin'
Eugene. : 2013-10-17 17:59:25
James, have you read the new book "Proof of Heaven" by neurosurgeon Eben Alexander, MD? I'd be curious to know what you think about it. He apparently was in a coma for seven days, his whole cerebral cortex completely shut down, and nonetheless had extensive experiences in "hyperspace." Quick easy read...fascinating, especially in regards to the whole discussion of whether consciousness is limited to the brain, or whether it is more fundamental then matter. Love to know your thoughts....
Eugene. : 2013-10-17 17:47:43
I found the discussion on psychedelics quite limited. Here are some points why I think psychedelics are not only relevant, but VERY important at this point in history.
1) given the long discussion on how fucked-up the world is right now, we can all agree that most if not all issues of our current world situation stem from a fragmented, ignorant, dysfunctional, violent, and greedy human consciousness.
2) there is no other known tool that can change consciousness in such a rapid, consistent way as do psychedelics. With the right set and setting, these tools can dramatically aid healing, therapy, expanded awareness, and integration.
3) these tools are the most reliable mystical catalysts known to humanity; no need to give your life to a hierarchy of men enclosed in their cozy religious constructs to be saved, enlightened, or liberated.
4) as tools, they allow the MATURE explorers of consciousness access to their minds- unconscious like no other known method.
5) for the study of neuroscience, they are indispensable if we aspire to get to the bottom of the mechanics of perception, language, and cognition. They are, hands down, the ultimate reprogramming/ re-imprinting tool a conscious species can have at their disposal.
6) by reshuffling the programmed, imprinted, neurotic neural pathways, these catalysts maximize our brain's neuroplastic nature, thereby giving creativity, problem-solving, spirituality, healing, and understanding a whole new level of possibility.
7) and finally, they expand our notions of what is real, what is possible, and therefore being an essential tool for those interested in exploring the ontological foundations of our universe.
Like many in this thread, I am a 40 y.o. father of two, with career, etc... definitely no time to trip at thumping raves every weekend (ahh, those were the days). But a couple of times a year I make time to check in, and ALWAYS come out with an insight, higher integration, more love in my heart, feel more connected, or just rest in the bliss of the formless Void. Of course I prepare for these sessions with diet, yoga, meditation, intention, etc, therefore minimizing any potential negative effect. I still find them incredibly useful, powerful, and enlightening, and still believe that their vast potential has barely been tapped.
Jake : 2013-10-16 18:03:24
OurMethodIsScience: I'm sorry you're unhappy with the title. I didn't really put much thought into it, just had to come up with a name on the spot so that's what I came up with. Wasn't intentionally disingenuous, just remember that I ranted about Evangelicals and James talked about about psychedelic chemists, so I just threw that up. Sorry if you took it the wrong way.

Dk Wilson: Glad you found us! Thanks for tuning in, hope we'll see you here again. As for the conspiracies, something is going on that is for sure. I have my opinions on that, but I'll save them for the show, maybe this weeks. Interesting about your father, Naval intelligence is interesting, I'd be curious to hear what period he served.

Davey: Very glad you enjoyed everything! Happy to have you here, as we are with everyone. Thanks for continuing to listen. I'm glad you like the mixture of subjects. I agree, it seems to be a trend that everyone should be forcefully turned on, at least for some, though that view needs to be deeply discussed and debated. People can choose their own journeys and paths, who am I to get in their way? That experience sounds rather unpleasant, especially the poisoning you mentioned. Lots of substances are marked as things they're not, intentionally, so that people will buy them. Unfortunate but true.

Thanks everyone for commenting, be well, see you all again soon.

davey. : 2013-10-16 16:37:47
BTW: thanks for indulging this listeners idle curiosity. Also, I appreciate the broad spectrum platform that goes well beyond matters of a strictly 'dosed' nature.

I do participate in some other discussion groups (but not much really). Although the ability to comment here carries less of the cultural construct of a commons or discussion type situation, I some how feel like it suits me better, that I fit in here better. hope I'm not mis-using the comment area...

With due respect to Nowhere Girl, I really like the audio format. I feel part of a conversation. Thanks for that!

I hope we all discover greater depths of self actualization this week (why not!).

And a big thank you to James and Jake. As Sir Toppam Hat might say, "You are truly useful engines!" sorry, Thomas the Train was just on TV...

DK Wilson. : 2013-10-16 16:24:58
Just found you guys in a search for a related subject. I do understand ceasing ingesting psychedelics. I began my quest at 13 and stopped 14 years later (yes, at the time of stoppage I'd spent over half my life tripping!). I am proud to say that I never ingested hallucinogens in any other way than that of a ritualistic environment conducive to listening to the universe spinning in and outside of my being.

However, after another 13 years of not "dreaming while awake" and growing a family and all the associated movement that go with that wonderful activity, I am preparing to head off again - this time as an adult, and not in nearly as intensely as before.

On "conspiracy theories:" please either know, or remember, that the phrase was first coined for use by the CIA - espoused through various news mediums - to deter people from researching the JFK assassination.

Also, you're absolutely correct about gun theory. BUT. You also must understand that, in part, this heightened "take away our guns" craze is a side-manifestation of the overreaching racist reaction toward President Obama.

Conspiracies by "the powers that be" to control the populace do exist, though most often not for the reasons popularly espoused. Having been a member of the media I know with certainty that newspaper editors and television producers will urge their writers/reporters to push the craziest of theories in order to marginalize those who have very real insight(s) into the workings that go on behind the veil.

Ahhh, hell, I could go on forever (my deceased father was deep ONI, so I do have some first-hand knowledge of the training involved in that line of work as well as knowledge of some of dark research performed by "the agencies").

Anyway, great podcast. Keep up the work!

davey . : 2013-10-16 15:39:37
Hi all, I was expecting a different subject matter when I read "evangelical psychedelic chemists". I've wondered at times why a mass dosing has never occurred. Definitely there are people who go through a period of believing we all need to be forcibly turned on. But this, like most conspiracy theories belies an overly simplified view of life. I think it was called imminatizing the eschaton (sic) in the illuminatus trillogy. A fundamentalist Christian faction pursue it with red cow breeding programs and God knows what other forms of. wackiness. Still the chemistry behind such a weapon of mass deprogramming is readily available. Its almost surprising its. never been attempted. I certainly would never endorse this. I'd say the moral compass that deep contact with ones own. mind would tend to protect society from this kind of psychic terrorism, but then I have had a wild eyed head spray me w a bottle claiming it contained LSD and Dsmo. Nothing happened, but I did make clear to him that his actions were motivated by anger not compassion. Like the notion of mk-ultra but in reverse... On another note: I basically agree w Jake and James. Middle age family man has little time for this kind of experimentation. I partnered recently w a fungal species only to conclude that I could achieve a more relevant, whole, and creative integration through my practice of mindfulness. It had been nearly 20 years since id gone whole hog. In fact, it was kinda fun to revisit the goey visuals, but I felt slightly poisoned at a somatic level for much of the evening. Lesson learned.
OurMethodIsScience. : 2013-10-16 15:26:31
This is a very misleading title for this podcast, and it seems to have been intentionally disingenuous since the discussion itself highlights that the most popular episodes are the one that spotlight psychedelia. Other topics clearly predominate.
Jake : 2013-10-15 19:35:59
Unfortunately we don't have the time or man power to maintain a daily news blog. DoseNation is moving more towards podcasting and radio, but will continue to blog when we have the availability, and the staffing. Sorry that we can't publish as much.
Nowhere Girl. : 2013-10-15 16:38:25
Why do you publish exclusively podcasts now? I strongly prefer reading to listening and I regret there's absolutely nothing new to read here...

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